The Current zoning plan

[Shrimpo]

Thats the main problem, They think fishings the main problem yet the airport thats stretching out a few hundred metres into the bay and causing a creek to be filled in is no problem according to them, The EPA are a hopeless bunch of pricks.

[ellicat]

Hahahaha. The zones have nothing to do with "resource management". If it did they would have some science to back up the decisions that are specific to Moreton bay. They are relying on what some American says is "Worlds best practice". You know what the world is to America don't you ? If not, refer to baseball and their World Series.

"Greeny" is a reference to all those that follow blindly what a biased media suggests we do to feel good. They're not environmentally green like most of us here. They are just green.

PS Dan (flatty catcher). Seriously - have a read through the links I posted earlier and follow some of the links within those threads. There's a lot of good info in them to help understand this issue, understand peoples/members views, examples of bias media reporting, alternatives thinking/suggestions.

[Gad]

fisho50,What can we do..

You hope that a lot of fellow rec fishing people ring the closest Labor MP,s electoral office,and explain that...

"At the next election,your vote will go to the present opposition,because they hate the greenies as much as you,further more they can tell the difference between sceintific fact and crap out of a hat".

Let,s be clear here there is a big difference between a rabid greenie and a person concerned about the enviroment

If an MP thinks his gravy train ride looks shaky, he might voice an opinion in unison,with other shakers, instead of hoping someone else puts a knife in Captain Blighs back.

Why be subtle

[flatty_catcher]

ellicat wrote:

Hahahaha. The zones have nothing to do with "resource management". If it did they would have some science to back up the decisions that are specific to Moreton bay. They are relying on what some American says is "Worlds best practice". You know what the world is to America don't you ? If not, refer to baseball and their World Series.

"Greeny" is a reference to all those that follow blindly what a biased media suggests we do to feel good. They're not environmentally green like most of us here. They are just green.

I would have thought they would have some scientific backup?

but at the end of the day, explain how your theory is better?

only then do you have an option.

like I said Im not posting here again, as I am not an authority on this complex issue.

cheers

[ellicat]

Dan, you have a right to voice your opinion, so don't be put off posting anymore in this thread.

See my PS to the post you quoted.

[Gad]

In among all this,simple questions also need to be explored Eg..why are some snapper, mackerel etc seasons better than others,why are some virtually non productive,is this to do with the appearance or lack of appearance of bait fish.

Why did Northern NSW waters see a prolific migration of Australian Salmon this season.

All I want from a governmentis a response to scientifc facts,Not a political knee jerk reaction.

In the 1970`s fishing groups north of Bundy were concerned about runoff from agriculture,affecting the habitat up north..2008 and Captain Bligh last week said that this very thing is a threat to The Great Barrier Reef.

Come on we deserve a government that serves all interests,not just political ones

[fisho50]

flatty-cather while i don't have any answers,from what i have read in the papers neither do a lot of other people,all i was trying to ask is how do we get involved so we can be better informed and try to make future decisions also benifit the rec angler.

thanks gad i will be doing that,

is there a organisation that is helping the rec fishers with this.

Cheers

Steve

[Dooley]

flatty_catcher wrote:

Fisherjoe wrote:

$300 on the spot fines for those who play ignorant and fish in the zones, with signs at all boat ramps, jetties etcetc and also floating signs in the water at the edge of the zones :dry:

but i guess we got it lucky this time around as origionally they were planning to green zone the entire area around the hornibrook bridge and most of the areas around redcliffe

theres no fish there anyway..lol

i lived at the boat hire at brighton park for some time 20 odd years ago. i fished there nearly everyday. 20 years ago you could hear the oyster crackers at night working their way through a feed on the cockle beds around the drop offs during the spawning season( yees, there used to be a huge cockle bed that pretty much extended from dohles to the mouth of the river on both sides of the river). now the cockle beds are GONE... now there are precious few bream to catch and hundreds of boats in the river competeing for what is left there...

i made a proposal to make the mouth of the river a "no take shellfish zone". oh and there also used to be razorlip shell fish as well as the oysters in the mangroves - not now though....

while i'm sure there are plenty of peeps out there that might know more about the pine further upstream, the fella i worked for taught me how to fish that river and he'd lived and worked on that river for 20 years before i'd got there.

what exists now in the pine is nothing like what it used to be. 20 years from now (if we don't look after it) it will look exactly like the canal estates down the coast.

i'm sorry to hear that some people will miss fishing their fav spots because of the rezoning - but if by protecting those spots means their will be more fish moving out and around into other places in the bay, then i'm all for it even it it means "blind science" having a gamble for the good outcome. because if we do nothing to foster some RE-growth of the fish population in the bay, then i can assure you with the 40 years of my personal experience fishing the bay, it will be a dead bay in 10 years time. only good for the turtles to feed on the jellys.

[Gad]

Hi Dooley,

Welcome to the site.

If you think back 15-20yrs ago thats when developers started opening up housing and industial estates from the pine to Cabulture,this combined rural,urban and industrial run off would have had more of an impact on the sensitive shell fish than rec line fishers.

Green zones will not make fish,migrate to large parts of the bay because fish don`t hang around mud bottomed,structureless marine deserts.

Governments were warned 30yrs ago that if they did nothing about the increase of rural chemical,urban and industrial run off into our waterways,our fisheries would be devastated.

Green zones are a kneejerk reaction for self interest groups,who the government need to vote them back in at the next election.

Complex problem,an overhaul of who should/will oversee our fisheries would be a start,so would keeping political and self interest groups out of. it.

[Dooley]

Gad wrote:

Hi Dooley,

Welcome to the site.

If you think back 15-20yrs ago thats when developers started opening up housing and industial estates from the pine to Cabulture,this combined rural,urban and industrial run off would have had more of an impact on the sensitive shell fish than rec line fishers.

Green zones will not make fish,migrate to large parts of the bay because fish don`t hang around mud bottomed,structureless marine deserts.

Governments were warned 30yrs ago that if they did nothing about the increase of rural chemical,urban and industrial run off into our waterways,our fisheries would be devastated.

Green zones are a kneejerk reaction for self interest groups,who the government need to vote them back in at the next election.

Complex problem,an overhaul of who should/will oversee our fisheries would be a start,so would keeping political and self interest groups out of. it.

If i didn't have 40 years of experince fishing, and swimming in most creeks and rivers including the brisbane river north of the river, i'd prolly agree with you.

however with the incresed use of the fish finders and gps units targeting fish this is becoming a very easy pastime. out in the bay there were only ever a few spots you could go to and reliabley catch a feed. and with the bay being the dangerous unpredictable monster it is most rec fishers in small boats stuck around the inshore areas. not today though. i'd bet my left dib those same small reefs around mud and peel are thick to the gunnals with rec fishers slamming those same gps locations every weekend.

30 years ago you'd be hard pressed to find more than twenty boats on the pine. on any weekend you care to, go down to the ramp at deep water and there'll be 50 trailers if there isn't one. the Massive increase in rec fishers is mind boggling. kayaking and boating around the bay has shot throught he roof. there can be no arguing that the increased numbers of rec fishers hasn't had an impact on the bay. we have had an impact, and the number of fish in the bay aren't increasing, the numbers and size are decreasing. the shellfish for example weren't killed off by commercial hunters, i know this for a fact. i saw with my own two eyes new people to the region take sugar bags of shell fish when the accepted norm was a few dozen. and as far as runoff is concerned more fresh and pollutants ran down the pine 20 years ago than it does today. it was more common than not for the fresh to reach the mouth of the pine on the bottom of the out. thats why fishing off the old bidge was good value. you knew the fish had to come out of the river and go under the bridge sooner or later in the runout.

anyhow you are right when it comes to saying fish won't hang around dead zones, why would they? the only places i find fish onshore are around structure and mangroves. fish spawn in them, they control sedimentation, they create natural gullies and feeder creeks, muddies, poddies, juv gar and herring call them home and shelter from their natural predators, us and bigger fish. the more mangroves around the outer edges of the bay the better. keeping us away from them allows the juveniles to grow into something worth catching. off shore is no different.

a lot of people have been saying over the years that more effort should be put into creating artifical reefs that are for the exclusive use of rec fishers. if the fishing tackle industry industry was more supportive of this effort then it would be a big first for this industry that reaps millions each year from this pastime. i'd like to see the materials that will be pulled down from the old hornibrook bridge used to create a few artifical reefs just out from the shorncliffe jetty. the old material would be carted away with barges anyway so a cheap alternative to any other solution would be to create a few artifical reefs for the exclusive use of rec fishers. with maybe a few more scattered about that are off limits....

anybody out there got the skills to put together a proposal to the government, i'm sure the local councillors and state members would be supportive of this type of proposal. i know i'd like to see a few more inshore reefs around the north of the bay. the prawn trawlers killed just about every reef area in the north of the bay years ago. i've been told they still drop their netts in the pine on the way out at nite. perhaps a few reef structures in the main channel of the pine would stop that as well

tm2cw

cya on the up

[Gad]

Like I said complex problem,

kneejerk reactions,do little,without confronting the other issues which add to the problem.Ignoring the other issues,only allows the problem to worsen.

[HookedOnTackle]

Studies have been done that prove the biggest contributors to declines in seafood in general are runoff and pollutants. Shellfish are prone to pollutants and heavy metals/pesticides can sit in the sediment for decades and longer. Pro fisherman can often damage areas and in some places destroy weedbeds and use the same technology as rec's as well as underwater mapping to pinpoint best areas to fish.

Exclusion zones are political point scoring games. It is no coincidence that as soon as the Brisbane river started scoring better on it's water reportcard, dolphins and threadfin salmon came into the river.

Yes there are more rec fishos, yes we do make an impact. But so does buying organic chicken from coles. Yes it used to be so much easier to catch a heap of fish and you could catch plenty on a thick wire trace and a smelly prawn. DPI/fisheries are usually quite good at bag limits and sizes, for example the slot limits for flathead.

As i stated in a previous post elsewhere, i think eco zones would be better, high carbon hooks, lead free jigheads, barbless hooks, no anchoring... More artifical reefs will be good, but focusing fishing effort to smaller areas will be pressuring these areas making it seem worse.

What about a fish licence? Education and helping fund studies. GST free for eco friendly tackle. I just feel there are much better ways of going about this that encourage people to do the right thing rather than forcing them to stay outside the invisible lines.

[Dooley]

"Studies have been done that prove the biggest contributors to declines in seafood in general are runoff and pollutants."

I generally agree with you except for the fact the bay's health depends on sedimentation and runoff. Once caused naturally when the se qld dams never existed. Now rarely caused except by direct rainfall in the brisbane suburban catchment. thats why the bay used to be thick with prawns,crabs and bugs, they eat all the dead crap the rivers system provided to the bay, still do.

"Shellfish are prone to pollutants and heavy metals/pesticides can sit in the sediment for decades and longer."

While shellfish eatability certainly suffer from pollution they love sediment - it's what they naturally eat. it's why they are one of the most important parts of the intertidal zone. they filter the sediment looking for the stuff that causes problems for seagrass. along with the conefish, bailer, razorlip, and soldier crab, hermit crab, all which used to be thick on the ground around the northern part of the bay and now are just a memory.

"Exclusion zones are political point scoring games."

maybe so, but not with the commercial fishers,divers,or rec fishos. gotta believe that number far outway the greenies. so even if it is a political point scoring game i'd reckon it's been a hard decision that will see them lose some support at the polls next year. but you can bet the lib/nats won't change things back.

"It is no coincidence that as soon as the Brisbane river started scoring better on it's water reportcard, dolphins and threadfin salmon came into the river."

And you should of heard the howls of protest by industry about how many jobs we would lose, and what benefit would it be to stop the river from being a secondary sewage system for city. the river is by far cleaner than it used to be so is brekkie crk, i know i used to swim in them both as a small kid back in the 70's, but there's also been no prawn and fish trawling in the river now for nearly 20 years..... i'd like to think that has had more of an impact on allowing prawn and fish stocks to return to somewhat normal numbers, hence more fish and in turn the dolphins chasing the larger fish numbers in the river. but the bay is a different story altogether. it is just being continuosly hammered by both rec and commercial fishos. with more sophisticated methods than was possible 20 years ago.

"Yes there are more rec fishos, yes we do make an impact. But so does buying organic chicken from coles."

??? The price of eggs in china has an impact on those chooks tho' but still they don't have a direct impact on how the huge increase in numbers of us rec fishers has had on the bay's fish population.

"Yes it used to be so much easier to catch a heap of fish and you could catch plenty on a thick wire trace and a smelly prawn."

caught many a good catty in brekkie crk on those. but not much else in fact the biggest catties my brother and i ever caught were on garden fresh worms, piled onto a 3/0 kirby. they couldn't resist it.

"DPI/fisheries are usually quite good at bag limits and sizes, for example the slot limits for flathead."

Couldn't agree more, but it hasn't stopped the decrease in numbers of fish stock.

"As i stated in a previous post elsewhere, i think eco zones would be better, high carbon hooks, lead free jigheads, barbless hooks, no anchoring..."

All great ideas that are easy to implement. It should be introduced quickly.

"More artifical reefs will be good, but focusing fishing effort to smaller areas will be pressuring these areas making it seem worse."

Maybe, i like to look at artifical reefs in the bay as something that is remediation/replacement of what used to be there before being destroyed by commercal fisher and rec divers

"What about a fish licence? Education and helping fund studies. GST free for eco friendly tackle."

More great ideas, but none of them have a direct immediate impact the way no-go zones do.

"I just feel there are much better ways of going about this that encourage people to do the right thing rather than forcing them to stay outside the invisible lines."

I would also like to believe that, however while working the boat hire business (2 years) at whats now called brighton park, i saw more people than not willing to take illegal catches home. the pelicans got plenty of fish to eat when this happened as old man Sanderson was a pretty righteous old dude. oh and the reason why you have to bring whole fish back to the ramp, is back in the eighties the rangers got sick of rec fishers mincing small fish to escape prosecution . thats the sort of thing we're up against. so yeah back in the sixties and seventies most of the population of brisbane had some idea of what morals and ethics were when it came to rec fihing, like the rest of the country. but like most of society these days morals and ethics take a back seat to self-interest. it sucks doesn't it. that those of us who play by the rules have to endure harsh treatment because of the ones who don't.

[Gad]

This thread has got to the point,that all other threads on this subject reaches,and that is..there are many factors contributing to the decline of, not only the bay, but all our fishing waterways.

There is no, one easy fix answer,each contributing factor must be addressed.

Let`s go fishing

cheers

[jeff f]

the idea of artificial reefs is great they should replace every reef that was removed by coral dredging to make cement over the past 150 years. square miles of reef were ripped out by those old rusty hulks sunk at moreton island and barged up river to darra cement

[Dooley]

jeff f wrote:

the idea of artificial reefs is great they should replace every reef that was removed by coral dredging to make cement over the past 150 years. square miles of reef were ripped out by those old rusty hulks sunk at moreton island and barged up river to darra cement

absolutel agreement, and the amount of soft sponges and corals and weed banks destroyed by trawlers still account today as one of the worst contributors of stuffing up the bay.

used to know an old guy who worked on those hulks 60 years ago and the stories he'd tell me about what they used to catch around the reefs was amazing. thats a story in itself - wonder if anyone has done any surveys or research on just what and how many reefs used to exist in the bay 50-60 years ago before before the coral dredges operated.

[flatty_catcher]

I was talking to a guy today and he said because they dredged all the reefs and dredged all the dunes and sandbars that the river is far more effected (disturbed) now by tidal flows.

Basically if you remove any obstacles from the river mouth water will rush in and out faster.

Basically scouring the river bed constantly.

That should give some indication of how far it has been rooted, not to mention the sand dredging in the river itself.

what makes me laugh is the pollies in their ivoy towers thinking they are immune to any cause, truth is when they go to a restaurant they could be eating prawns netted in Sydney harbour.

No one escapes the consequences of a polluted environment.